Friday, January 07, 2011

Why I never enagage in 'what black women did to make things the way they are' discussions

Do you know why I never ever get involved in the, 'What did black women do to make the situation the way it is in the black community' discussions? I dont because it is an invalid argument built on the premise that black women have equal responsibility for creating the choas and dysfunction that reigns within the black social grouping.

The argument makes black women out to be co-creators with black men. It refuses to recognize the power differential that exists between male and female in a world that privileges male over female, and thus a world which gives males the determining role in how things eventually turn out.

The argument is one which wants to assign to black women equal agency in terms of determining how the situation has panned out for the black social group. Indeed note how when black folks raise these, 'What about how black women did X, Y, Z', you can see they are talking from a position of 'black women were doing it at the same time as black men, with the same social permission and prerogative, at the same level and with the same intent and purpose'! Note that none of them is trying to even look at how that black women in their actions of X, Y, Z, could well be 'responding' to a situation already determined/set up by black men. Indeed flattening time lines and making it all seem simultenous is a key black way of obscuring black male culpability indeed reducing the insight that a 3-D dimensioned discussion of events would cast on the situation.

But take a look at how, when there are general discussions about the situation in our planet, how that there is total comfort with assigning white females a lesser role in shaping the world as we know it and any system of injustice and inequity that exists. Indeed if the truth must be told, white women are rarely if ever indicted as creators of the systems of oppression and injustice. Most analyst are very uncomfortable in positioning white women (who they deem as equally oppressed in patriarchy and capitalist structures), as in anyway 'responsible' for any unjust or unequal set up. Those that are reevaluating the role of white women are more likely to denote them as 'colluders' with white men or 'internalizers' of oppressive ideas and beliefs never 'generators' of these.

But again note that when 'liberals' suddenly want to turn the spotlight on the situation within the black social grouping and if they are able somehow to move away from 'the white male and government is the source and root of all evil', discourse, they suddenly and automatically level the social standing between black women and men to make black women out as co-creators of the bad situation as it stands. See, while they are happy to 'lessen' white female culpability for the shape of things in the wider world, when it comes down to black women who have multiple levels of oppression to contend with, you would think they would know to then deem black women less responsible, but oh no, these same folks are happy to load down black women with equal if not 'more' blame that black men because yes indeed the sentiment that black men are sometimes 'victims' of black women can be noted proceeding from the writings of 'liberal' folks! See why I am fast loosing respect for so called 'liberals'.

And the worst thing is that it is so automatic and such a blind spot that even when you point out, what they are doing and how they switch their principles when it comes round to black women, they deny it and maintain that they are just being fair and consistent. I have been reviewing a number of articles penned by white men in particular over some of the media attention BWE work has garnered over the years and consistently their sympathies are lying with black men!

Once again I will reiterate that there is a power differential existing between black men and women due to males being privileged in our society thus black women cannot and should not be held responsible for the shape of things within the black social setting, indeed once you account for the overarching system's shaping of the black situation, the next folk in line for being responsible for the black situation are black men. Period.

Do black women have a role in the state of affairs particularly their own situation? Sure and indeed the fact that ultimately they end up taking the negative brunt of it all (indeed the impact of OOWetc etc are more on black women), reinforces for me the fact that they are not in the driving seat. What I (and most BWE) realize when looking at the role of black women is that they are often colluding with black men towards their own oppression  and 'responding' in ways that aggravate the situation to their own detriment. This has a lot to do with how they are socialized and the doctrines and dogmas within which they are socialized, which causes this maladaptive response. As long as black women continue to be held sway by these black doctrines, they will continue to respond in these maladaptive and maladjusted ways. This is why the thrust of BWE work is to 'retrain' black women in the ways of looking after their own best interest, to train black women in the ways of 'self-interest awareness' and self advocacy and make them become knowlegable about how how third parties are trying to harness their rescources and efforts for their selfish benefit and with no thought of reciprocating!

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51 comments:

Lisa99 said...

And here is a perfect example.

A privileged white female professor suggesting the idea of a "financial abortion" for poor (and usually black) men so that they can achieve economic freedom by not being "burdened" by a child they never wanted.

http://www.blogher.com/frame.php?url=http://www.theroot.com/views/what-if-i-dont-want-be-daddy?page=0,0

Yeah, but she wouldn't dare suggest such mess for privileged WM who impregnate her WW sisters and then want to walk away... oh no, but it's okay to expect BW to take up the ENTIRE slack.

Anonymous said...

Halima, this is truly a powerful and on point examination of this crucial issue. Thank you for giving me new definitions and an indepth examination to refer to.

Neecy said...

Great Post Halima.

i too have lost respect for most liberals once I started seeing the hypocrisy. Liberals have always been comfy with assigning equal fault to BW, while as you said, WW are often given a pass for their role in oppression and the benefits they too receive at the expense of others.

that is why BW (non indoctrinated BW) need to recognize we have ONLY oursleves to count on. And as you said, BW need to be retrained in our thinking. The minute more BW reject this notion that we are just as equally responsible for the downfall of the BC as well as being the MAMMY and CODDLERS to everyone else we will be much better off.

I almost wonder if outside parties are less sympathetic to BW's plight b/c BW too have contributed to this idea that we are "STRONG" and can handle and take on anything. Who are the first ones out on the lines of fire when some BM is being "wronged" by WM or society? BLACK WOMEN. What message does this send? that BW are like men. That BW want to fight for and defend men. Notice WW and other races of women don't go out on limbs to openly fight their mens battles like BW do. When you see WW fightring its usually for EACH OTHER or women's issues.

I think this sort of becomess a self fulfilling prophecy that extends outside to others who then develop this mindset that BW are on the same level as men and want to be held accountable like males. And lets face it, there are a lot of BW out there these days that are masculine in their beliefs and actions. Doing things that MEN should be doing. Taking up the BM's work.

Once BW stop acting like sister soldiers and mules and taking on the traditional roles of MEN and caretakers for everyone, maybe then will we finally get the recognition that we too are women who are ultimatley not responsible for the downfall of our culture and children.

Neecy said...

Lisa,

Why am i not surprised at the WW's suggestion? Unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

Another great post. I discovered BWE blogs this past summer and you are absolutely, unmistakably right. BW need to be re-trained in their thinking and practices if they hope to have and enjoy any success.

I think many BW are afraid of the work and the results because saying "no" and putting yourself first is new territory, but new territory is a good thing when you are drowning in the muck that has become the BC.

Hodan said...

Great analysis of the double standard when it comes to black women. Every other women of color are treated like victims incapable of making a change in their own society, except black women. You don't hear these same liberal social construct blaming Afghanis, Iraqis and others on the horrendous condition in their society. However, their sympathy is missing, never to be found when it comes to black women.

Halima: "I have been reviewing a number of articles penned by white men in particular over some of the media attention BWE work has garnered over the years and consistently their sympathies are lying with black men!"

Hodan: Indeed, I sometimes read on other sites about white men and how they don't want to be looked @ negatively when it comes to IR dating. In particular the article that got so much negative feed titled '10 Reasons to Date a White Guy'. Many of the so-called white men were upset on behave of black men, hilarious to read it.

Faith said...

Isn't this tying into how they view the black male as wholly WEAK and INCOMPETENT though? Otherwise why would so many need to put the po' black downtrodden male on the abuse pedestal?

We need to continually call out this double-burden placed on us - esp by the so-called white liberal.

You're right, they wouldn't DARE to even hold a WW responsible. I was always suspicious about how Patty Hearst got away with her crimes and how Stockholm Syndrome was quickly proferred as a reason. Not that it may not have occurred, but TPTB were going to wash away her actions (along with sexing the black male in the group) away as something that was never under her control.

This may not be the best example but it's what has come to mind.

Khadija said...

Lisa 99,

You said, "A privileged white female professor suggesting the idea of a "financial abortion" for poor (and usually black) men so that they can achieve economic freedom by not being "burdened" by a child they never wanted."

Oh...wow...that's incredible. It's incredible to see the amount of suffering these so-called liberals feel is somehow "appropriate" for BW and Black children.

Hmph!

Oshun said...

This post is making me uncomfortable on many levels. Ain't I a woman - yet - even in 2011? I am feeling beyond othered.

I am wondering:

1. Whats in it for whites who think/feel this way? Especially a white man?


@ Lisa, I read that article. I am disturbed to the max. She makes it all so simple and so much in favor of BM. There is no way in hades I want some "edumacated" nut like this influencing policy.

Khadijah spoke about these liberal weirdos and their so "helpful" yet amazingly damaging policies.


@Hodan, get out of here. Upset on behalf of BM? Are these WM on drugs?

Oshun said...

@ Khadija

"It's incredible to see the amount of suffering these so-called liberals feel is somehow "appropriate" for BW and Black children."

Cosign. I felt almost inhuman reading this "professor's" solution. Its like the only person of value or the only human in this scenario worthy of any kind of considerations are BM.

I am also feeling some type of way about nonBlack folks thinking they have the right to "create solutions" for black folks. I am not liking this at all. Especially since they don't have to live through any of these brillaint social experiments.

Khadija said...

Okay, I finally braced myself enough to be able to read that garbage article.

That was appalling.

And of course, one can expect the only media exposure some deranged scheme like this has is probably in so-called Black oriented media like The Root. As opposed to being offered up for "legitimate" discussion in a mainstream magazine---and certainly NOT in a WW's magazine like Redbook.

My God---Where's the pushback from some Black women professors? And who makes the editorial decisions at The Root?

The WF professor suggesting this madness deliberately jumped right into the same bad-faith fallacy that Halima outlines in this post. This WF nut calls herself an egalitarian and someone who wants to level the playing field, but does NOT acknowledge the power differential that operates in men's favor on a patriarchal planet.

So she calls herself "evening the playing field" by creating a scheme that would take even more food out of already disproportionately poor and hungry Black children's mouths. Disgusting.

Anonymous said...

Maybe they feel they could BLAME BLACK WOMEN because were the only ones who became billionaires and millionares before our men OPRAH AND MADAME C.J. WALKER etc....and we have to start becoming ladies again and to STOP FIGHTING FOR OUR MEN other cultures know this is foolishness EXCEPT FOR BLACKS

ValeriesWorld said...

I am speaking here from a Christian prospective. We all have to get account of our lives, the decisions we made. We cannot give an account of what another person does.

The problem is that we as black women have been brainwashed in the situations, which is not anything to do with us and we feel that we have to take responsibility of another person's action. Hence we live lives in a restrictive way.

For example I have an 84 year old father, who I look after, he many times does not take his tablets, his feet have been swollen for many years, now that he is in a care home and the staff are dealing with his problem. People who know him, try to harass me and blame me because he is in a care home and even my ex husband was saying that 'we did not look after him'. Another man told me that I must persuade him to go back to Guyana.

This is the problem if black women do A, B, C, and we would continue for ever saying the same thing and black men still not taking responsibility.

Clearly we black women must take on the burden of other people's behaviour. The BC are quite happy, once more black women start to think clearly, many in the BC will either come to terms or die out.

Lisa99 said...

Khadija, Oshun, Neecy, et.al.,

Yes, it was an appaling article. I hesitated before posting it because like many of you, I'm focusing on living well and not what DBRs are doing.

But Halima's post made me think of this WW professor immediately. Also, I Googled one of the other professors quoted in that article (Jennifer Hamer) and she is a BW. A BW who's spent her career studying (and appearingly sympathizing with) BM who abandon their children.

While I don't think such a crazy proposal will gain traction, I DO think that some variation of that will become more likely as our society remains in a recession and whites increasingly project their frustration onto blacks whom they believe are supposedly taking all of their tax dollars and not working.

While we know that's an exaggeration, the point is that folks sympathy for black people has run out. And in a sinister twist, their ire will be directed to black women and children, as they will be increasingly shown as the face of U.S. poverty.

And correct again Khadija about the fact that The Root published this article. I tried to find something in a mainstream publication like the New York Times or Washington Post to post instead, but surprise, surprise, no media source went as in-depth about this concept than The Root. I also know that a growing group of black male "leaders" are blaming "oppressive" child support laws for black men's inability to progress economically during this recession, and they are seeking legal "reform."

THAT article made the New York Times, by the way.

And Halima, in the UK, isn't there some Pakistani woman working in the social work sector who said that BW are at fault for single-family households because they "push their men away?" A Pakistani woman!!!! Why is SHE speaking on this topic?

The messages here are very clear. Very.

Amanda said...

What the ww professor doesn't get is as much as those poor bm complain about all day babies and baby mommas that's a notch on their belt.

zoopath said...

I'm not entirely sure that even the Lord has enough mercy for all the amoral foolishness in that article. I tried to steel myself but I still wasn't prepared. Has it really come to a point where such conversations take place? I just wanna put ashes in my hair, throw on my sackcloth and start wailing. I'm gonna just have to turn my back on that Sodom of a conversation.

Anonymous said...

And Halima, in the UK, isn't there some Pakistani woman working in the social work sector who said that BW are at fault for single-family households because they "push their men away?" A Pakistani woman!!!! Why is SHE speaking on this topic?


I live in the UK and haven't heard this story. If it is true this woman needs to sit down before the spotlight is turned on the mess many Pakistani (and other South-Asian's) women contend with in their so called in-tact marriages.

Hmph!

mochachoc

arthur said...

You're right about the white liberal thinking. I know a number of them, including one of my brothers (atheist, socialist) and his wife. In their minds the bc = bm. It's like bw hardly exist. And what little they think about bw is a media-driven view of jezabels, sapphires and mammys.

Bellydancer said...

Lisa99 I do remember a paki woman was working on some absurd theory about bw and bm in the uk having problems and I thought okay bitch deal with your own issues first like forced marriages, honor killings and inbred childred of paki immigrants who have serious birth defects because they keep bonking their own cousins, jihadis walking around london screaming for war etc... before you step to us about our problems. All these people seem to think they know what's best for us except the right things.

Halima said...

the word paki is a slur akin to -N-
just so you know not to use it.

ahh you folks want to give me nightmares again but yes there was a woman (i dont know her orgins) who threw bw under the bus in a big way:

Black women 'also cause splits'
Black women are "hugely responsible" for the family breakdown which
fuels crime, MPs have been told.


Camila Batmanghelidjh, of the charity Kid's Company, said men were usually
seen as the "irresponsible" ones who got girls pregnant and "walked off".
But black women were also to blame as they had a culture of rejecting men and being "cruel" towards them, she said.
Ms Batmanghelidjh, who advises Tory leader David Cameron, was speaking to the influential home affairs
committee.
The Commons committee, which is investigating young black people and the criminal justice system, was told 57%
of black Caribbean children grew up in lone parent households, compared with 25% of white children.
Shaun Bailey, of youth organisation My Generation, said all the evidence showed children who grew up in married
or two parent families did better at school and were less likely to end up in prison.

http://www.familieslink.co.uk/download/july07/Attacks%20on%20black%20women.pdf

Lisa99 said...

Halima, yes, that's the woman!!!

She's actually Iranian. I got her ethnicity wrong. Sorry about that.

But yes, my point stands. Here is a woman with a level of influence and power and she is advising British leaders. And she is blaming BW for "pushing BM away."

Madness!

Neecy said...

I am wondering though, how much of this neglect for BW's struggle and blaming of BW *IS* mostly BW's fault? I think what has happened is greater society has taken cues from what is par for the course in the black community (ignoring BW and children, blaming BW and putting all efforts into BM) and is just doing what they feel is normal and what BW have been doing for decades?

If it were the other way around and BW valued themselves as women FIRST, BM acted like men, the BC protected and worked to save its women and children from Bm predators, if BM were on the front lines fighting for injustice against BW and black children (and themselves) etc., things would be different. Greater society would fear trying to hold BW accountable. But its not that way. Greater society sees and observes that BW are happy with the way things are (us being beneath BM and doing absolutely nothing for ourselves as women) and they are just doing what anyone does - treat you how you want to be treated.

I think another perfect example of greater society just doing what BW and black folks in general allow is how BW are portrayed in the media. it seems that BM present and use BW for various exploitive reasons and BW go along with it and will even FIGHT anyone who points out how BW are being exploited by BM - they start accusing everyone of "trying to hold the BM down". Its always about sacrificing our own images, womanhood for the BM. So in essence the white media sees that BW are more than happy to be the negative stereotypes that the BLACK COMMUNITY has presented to the world, thus they are only following what Blacks and BW have participated in.

Another area I see where BW are often bothered by the lack of sisterhood is with White feminists. It seems even White feminists have got the picture that BW ONLY care to put the needs of BM over their own children and lives as women. So what have White feminists done? Jumped on the bandwagon and now they are more likely to take up for BM causes b/c when they used to try and stick up for BW, BW called them racists trying to hold the BM down.

I believe all of this HAS unfortunately come back to bite BW in the butt. I'm sorry. it has. And now BW like us have to work hard at changing this perception that we don't care about our own struggles as women and start holding BM accountable for their own irresponsible actions. But there are still a great number of BW who don't get it.

It seems BW has sent this message that we are beneath BM, that BM are the "sufferers" of the Black race and any and all attention, programs, fighting for justice has and is always on their behalf. This makes it too easy for the loony liberals and such to make such insane proposals b/c honestly they know many BW will not bat an eye at it b/c it somehow is going to benefit the "BLACK KING". THAT is why these people can get away with coming up with crazy proposals that only further diminish BW's lives. And yet, notice BM are not out trying to fight against this proposal b/c it benefits them. YET, if this were something that benefited BW and took away from Bm and children, BW and BM alike would be out fighting calling such proposals racist and anti BM b/c the Bm is an “endangered species”. Let’s just call a spade a spade. That is why its so easy for outside parties to constantly stick up for BM. b/C BW have sent a very clear consistent message to the world that BM are number 1, 2, 3 and that we as BW have no real concern for our lives and struggles as women b/c we put all efforts into BLACK MALES. THIS is done by BLACK WOMEN. So if the message is BW are always willing to fight and ONLY acknowledge BM as sufferers wouldn't that seep out into greater society who then also takes its cues on how BW have presented their struggles as women?

Neecy said...

continued....

If BW are willing to put themselves & their struggles beneath BM (which BW have been doing for decades) why is it so far fetched that others outside of the BC wouldn't either?

And let's face it. For every loony WW liberal and Pakistani woman blaming BW and coming up with ways to once again let BM off the hook, there will be just as many BW agreeing with them b/c so many BW believe that BM are the only sufferers in the world and even believe that other BW contribute to their suffering.

Last, people don't really know BW. BW have voluntarily socially isolated ourselves from greater society. BM haven't. Its a lot easier for outsiders to sympathize with BM b/c BM are very different in how they view embracing others and interacting with others outside of the black community. instead BW are always the main and ONLY ones working for BC, always attending and supporting Black functions, Black this and Black that. Black women are always on the front lines fighting "white hegemony" (as Khadija would say). How many BM do we see openly fighting for anything in regards to Black people, Black children, Black community? NONE. its always Black women acting like the men. And now we are being held accountable for things that BM should be held accountable for. no one really gets to interact with BW b/c BW as a collective usually only attend, support and go to Black only things. BM are not like this. They are very comfy in being around others outside of the Black community. I think this too extends on their behalf and people tend to empathize with Bm more b/c they are more willing to assimilate.

I'm sorry if people think I am jumping on the "Blame BW" bandwagon. But I am of the belief of tough love. If BW are to blame for how we have allowed others to perceive our womanhood or lack thereof, then it is what it is and we can work on changing that. But I am not going to pretend these loonies came out of nowhere with their crazy proposals and constant trying to let BM off the hook. Not when there are MORE BLACK WOMEN who do this daily, hourly. What BW thought they have been doing from the heart out of true concern for their people and community has backfired. b/C no group of women should be fighting men’s battles or acting like the carriers of the race. This is a hard lesson BW need to learn. BW have contributed greatly to how we are perceived and viewed by greater society - at least IMO.

Monique said...

Halima, excellent post. I learned in college and thereafter that white liberalism will always fail because it refuses to see its own racism and privilege.

In regards to the article by the WW professor at Brown, in my opinion it's complete drivel. You can bet your bottom dollar that she would NEVER tell WM that BS becasue she knows that WW would tear her a new one and rightly so. But it's ok to foist this crap onto the darkies, because, you know they just can't do no better.

If BM are unable to provide for their children then it is incumbent upon BM to figure out why and do something to change it, but somehow BM's inability to do tha becomes BW's fault and responsibility.

And how exactly would you ever be able to prove in a court of law that you told you're babay momma that you didn't want to have a baby? How would the proffer of evidence look in that case? I mean really.

The majority if these men aren't thinking with the head on their shoulders and they certainly arent't weighing or looking at the consequences of their actions. Indeed, most BM believe it's the woman's duty to prevent pregnancy.

This professor is a nut.

Halima said...

It seems BW has sent this message that we are beneath BM, that BM are the "sufferers" of the Black race and any and all attention, programs, fighting for justice has and is always on their behalf. This makes it too easy for the loony liberals and such to make such insane proposals b/c honestly they know many BW will not bat an eye at it b/c it somehow is going to benefit the "BLACK KING".

Neecy I can only agree with you that bw have done themselves much harm and yes the general society is taking its cues from the way bw are ok to have it.

we are the ones who have made a rod for our backs but as usual we still havent figured it out yet and wont do for a long time, as we try to cling to our delusion of being in a better place than black man! Do you know one of the comon mantras over hear among bw, it is that the white community would rather let bw have jobs/succeed rather than black male, so negating all the hard work and going to school and putting in, in one fell swoop! idiots the lot of them!

I think it was bell hooks that noted that the state of absolute oppression is when the oppressed are not even aware of their oppression but delude themselves into the idea that they are ok or have it easier than others.

indeed at what point did being black and female suddenly carry privileges in our society, but to hear bw speak, you would think they have it better or at least are on the same footing as black males socially speaking.

I cant tell you the number of 'justice and equality' type forums that i have been to that bw approach the discussions as if they are less disadvantegd by race and gender or that they somehow have it slightly better and thus have to 'see' with others.

we are suppose to be putting forth some notion of strength when we do such but i fear it is more about us being too oppressed to even regocnise it or maybe we are blocking it out.

Am I saying that we should play victim? not really, but the understanding that others need to make way for us to raise issues first and not tolerating dissenters and nay sayers, is a clear way of showing we are aware that our perculier situation means we should be seen as akin to a protected class.

Lisa99 said...

Halima said: Do you know one of the comon mantras over hear among bw, it is that the white community would rather let bw have jobs/succeed rather than black male, so negating all the hard work and going to school and putting in, in one fell swoop! idiots the lot of them!

I think that's a common mantra over here too! Or BW play down their achievements when among lesser-achieving BM by simply saying that they've been "blessed" to be where they are.

Nah, you weren't "blessed." You worked to get to where you are. And those BM who feel insecure could have worked just as hard and been in the same place. But no, we can't take credit for what we've done -- it's either white society putting us in places because they're scared of BM (ha), or we're just blessed to be where we are.

What warped thinking we have going on!

palmwater said...

Another great post Halima!

I can't believe that a professor would write such garbage! Radicalized sexism is very apparent amongst many white liberal woman. For some reason, this professor ignored sexism and patriarchy as it relates to Black women's situation, but for sure would never ignore that when providing solutions to white women's problems.

This situation reminds me of a story that one of your UK commenters mentioned. She mentioned that some BM posted lewd photos of BW for a promotional event on a university campus. If I remember correctly she also mentioned that a lot of the white female students (some girlfriends of the BM responsible) didn't have a problem with the sexist depiction of BW in the posters.

Wow Neecy! You gave a right hook, left hook and did a body slam! I couldn't agree more with your comment! It's very telling that the coauthor is a BW!

palmwater said...

* sorry I meant to write racialized sexism ot radicalized sexism!

Khadija said...

I believe Neecy's right. BW have collectively painted themselves into a corner.

All of this confirms for me that sensible BW must redouble our efforts to distance ourselves in every way possible from the insane ideas and slogans being spewed by the dead Black community and 99.999% of its (mis)leaders, activists, journalists, and purported scholars.

Over the years, whenever I hear another Black person saying something in public that's crazy-yet-widely-accepted-by Blacks, I've increasingly responded like the other farm animals in The Little Red Hen fairy tale: "Not I!," said Khadija. (= Count me OUT of that.)

Anonymous said...

I wasn't able to pull up that article. We all know that that particular so-called professor has a thing for bm and she is a FOOL.

In a meeting at school once again our female vice chancellor is promoting young bm mentoring and not one mention of young bg. They were planning to have a one day conference in reference to young women and that conference was cancelled. However the one day mens' conference went on as scheduled.
We need to value ourselves just as much as we value men.

peace

koolkc107 said...

Your argument is typical of certain black feminists who seek to shirk all responsibility and culpability concerning their part in the present declined status of black society. Black men have little or nothing to do with 17 million black women deciding to abort since 1973 instead of carrying babies to term then giving them up for adoption. Black men have little or nothing to do with women making horrible choices about whom they have intercourse with resulting in an over 70% out of wedlock birth rate. And it is not black men walking away from their vows which include the words "for better or worse" in record numbers. The original poster makes the same mistake as most of her contemporaries. Simply put, you cannot include the black man in any "white male power paradigm" as much of that same power structure has, either purposely or inadvertently, been directly responsible for the neutering of a large measure of black male power in this country. In other words, while there may indeed be such a thing as male privilege for white men, including black men in this theorized explanation of things is an assumption which has no basis in reality.

The real problem is illustrated by what the original poster did in making her assumption. It is a mistake many black feminist make (and thankfully the more aware of them do not). As the models of relationships and power differ in the black community from those in the white community, it is useless and completely in error to attempt to apply the tenets of white feminism to the black model. It is a matter of apples and oranges.

As long as black women are unwilling to take a long, honest, thorough look into their roles as contributors to the current status quo, no comprehensive solutions will ever be able to be arrived at, much less implemented. You cannot solve any problem which has multiple root causes by completely ignoring one of the most important ones.

Halima said...

The original poster makes the same mistake as most of her contemporaries. Simply put, you cannot include the black man in any "white male power paradigm"

The original poster says, you must have escaped an insane asylum. if you cannot include bm in the power dynamics why would you even suggest bw have any such power at their disposal.

As long as black women are unwilling to take a long, honest, thorough look into their roles as contributors to the current status quo, no comprehensive solutions will ever be able to be arrived at, much less implemented. You cannot solve any problem which has multiple root causes by completely ignoring one of the most important ones.

An increasing number of us have no interest in looking at any solutions which include you Mr bm. We want to cut you loose and let you walk your own path alone. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Oshun said...

"An increasing number of us have no interest in looking at any solutions which include you Mr bm. We want to cut you loose and let you walk your own path alone. Good riddance to bad rubbish!"

Amen! I don't care what happens to BM. I know with the attitude of the poster being so common I would never respect one as a man at all.


@Khadija & Neecy

Re: Painting in a corner

This is really upsetting to me that this is the fallout. Talk about one heck of a inheritance being passed down. I am just speechless. Usually I can think of ways to turn even negatives to my advantage, but I am stumped here.

Neecy said...

Khadija,

You're right. i think the only thing left for sensible BW to do is to make it known we are no longer in alignment with the typical Black person. I have no desire to be apart of the usual Black life or involved with the averge Black person.

i do this all the time. And I could care less what Black person doesn't like it or thinks I am trying to "be white" or bougie.

HALIMA,

Well said! The only solution is for BW to RUN (not walk) AWAY from Black comunity and Black men. THAT is the only solution. Period.

And I believe those Black and White female lunatics in the article who proposed protecting irresponsible dead beat BM is all the more reason for BW to stop sleeping & procreating with BM.

Anonymous said...

It's times like this that I thank God that I have NO bastard children by bastard males tethering and tying me down to any place or group.

God is truly good.

I have not gotten everything in life right but I am sitting here taking notes on all this learning how to maneuver in this very rough terrain.Learning to form relationships and allies with all the RIGHT people,regardless of race,so that I can win at life.

I have to emphasize for any women that may be reading and lurking that the fact that I have had no sex relationships
(couldn't use romantic) or children by a black male has made life much easier for me.I don't have the same or as many obstacles as black women with children by most black men do.

I have at times let the current state of other black women drive me into a state of depression.I have learned to thank God that I am not in their situations.

I thank God for rest and peace of mind.I thank God that I don't have to bargain with wicked men when it comes to helping me raise kids or helping me with bills.I thank God that I don't have to view my beauty threw the eyes of white supremacists and for being born a black woman and I thank God that I am NOT a DBR black male or one of their dbr mammies.Surely there is a special place in hell for them and their supporters.

I also know that the racist white/other women supporters and lovers of DBR black males will soon themselves be the victims of these dbr's.You reap what you sow.Just like it bit us in the butt it'll bite them too.
It's kind of already started.I can only hope that I don't secretly take pleasure in their destruction
if only to continue to be in the mercies of God myself.

Truth P.

Oshun said...

"BW to stop sleeping & procreating with BM."

This has been in the back of my mind for 2 years at least. I feel like screaming this to so many young black girls and BW.

Anonymous said...

An increasing number of us have no interest in looking at any solutions which include you Mr bm. We want to cut you loose and let you walk your own path alone.

______

Count me in this population! MOre bw need to consider the radical (but necessary) position of black male divestment. Haven't bm demonstrated time & time again that they don't value and cherish bw??? SMH... when will bw take a hint???

Anonymous said...

That article from that white female professor is just another example in the list of why modern liberalism is damaging to black women. What the hell does this or any white woman for that matter know what the black woman goes through??? They are NOT our "sisters in the struggle". They NEVER were and they NEVER will be. The white woman is constantly coddled, protected and worshiped. She is absolved of any responsibility. Both white women and black men are the selfish, self-serving inwardly focused members of their respective race. Both never take full responsibility for their actions and expect their messes to be cleaned up for them. Black women and white men are in general more outwardly focused, ready to work and defend. This is why I always thought that white women are better paired with black men, and black women are better paired with white men.
These white liberals are poison with a capital "P". Liberalism seeks to create dependency of Blacks on the government, it helps perpetuate the "victim" mentality and encourages the lack of personal responsibility and impulse control required to build sustainable communities.

Point blank: Black women need to run from the black community AND any politically "liberal" movement (yes, including the Democratic Party (and the Republican Party, for that matter)). True liberalism pushes for self-determination and personal responsibility--two values that are severely lacking in black communities.

trish said...

I want to propose a radical solution but I don’t know how it will play out. I have been reading the many comments on this post and I am very disheartened. What comes across clear is the fact that black women need to divest from the black community yesterday. I also believe that black women may have to rethink procreating with black men period. You could look at it from a statistical point of view i.e. the likelihood of the average black woman marrying a non dbr black man.
Lastly, I think it is time that we as black women make our voice heard whenever instances of black criminality are made public. We should be the ones saying the things that others (liberal whites) are afraid to say. I wonder if it is time we take a harder stand on black criminality than even the most vitriolic Republican. It may do us good to point out their real failures and waste of actual opportunities. We need to make known the silly excuses, the propagation of fatherlessness, etc. in mainstream online and offline media not just on forums like this. In other words we need to bring these discussions out in the open so to speak. We should not be huddled in black corners of the web lamenting the ill treatment of black men towards black women and children and non-black others. We don’t have to scream like banshees but we must be firm.
Is it time for us to make it known to non-black others that we are giving non-reciprocating black men a wide berth? Is it time for us to other them as they have almost successfully othered black women? I think so. It may have the effect of garnering sympathy for black women and children. It may give women and girls the courage to speak up, or even consider giving quality non-black males a real chance.
This may be radical but it may put the spotlight back on the black man’s actual responsibility as men. It may force them to change.

Oshun said...

@ Trish

I think the last goal of any BW or group of BW is to make BM change. They are dead to me.

I think BM are pretty much already othered as it is. I am not saying this from a sympathy standpoint.

But think about all the stereotypes about them. Look at their unemployment /education/incarceration/ rate. They are "not normal".

I don't think BW should go head to head with BM by othering them more. I think its a waste of energy and resources and it makes BW seem unfeminine (for trying to fight men) and it keeps BW engaged and tethered to BM in a collective way.


I think people already are aware of the failures of BM. The thing is as Neecy and others have said -BW have always made excuses for BMs failures: We as women have to do x, y, z to help them. Or yes he killed 50 people, but he has black rage bc he is oppressed.

I do agree with this:
Lastly, I think it is time that we as black women make our voice heard whenever instances of black criminality are made public. We should be the ones saying the things that others (liberal whites) are afraid to say. I wonder if it is time we take a harder stand on black criminality than even the most vitriolic Republican.

This should have been happening all along bc when the grits hit the fan - we are usually the sole victims of these crimes.

I think disengaging from BM all of them including useless family. Putting them out of our homes, purses, and lives for good.

Snitch to the police from sunup to sundown. Not just snitch, but use the police for protection when necessary.

Create networks with select nonblack folk and other BW.

Leave all black communities.

Stop supporting black institutions that have shown they don't support you.


The thing about taking it offline - while exciting is that some BW or several BW will have red dots on their foreheads...

For example: F Weaver of BGT was holding national seminars for IRR dating/marriage. I was very excited and planned to attend. She had a few of them in select cities, but wouldn't you know- known DBRBM who have blogs and were on your tube were stalking these places.

They were giving detailed online reports about the venue, how many women were there, what the women were wearing, what they were doing, how long it lasted etc..

Also another BW was trying to host IRR mixers- for BW and WM to meet/be introduced. DBRBM were crashing them and causing scenes.

That was when Khadija posted her posts about security. So unless you have a security team or can hire 24/7 bodyguards a campaign offline is is life and death risky.

These men are already killing us. Whether is through AIDS or DV. You know that they rage at us already and that will escalate as more BW divest. If there were a national campaign that would up the ante even more from DBRBM who are unhinged.

Asian women didn't do an offline campaign. They just followed a set of behavior that reached a critical point among their collective. BW can do the same.

ak said...

Neecy everything you said there was true, true, too true. And then BW get upset when they hear about the stereotypical perceptions that non-black people have about them, and they say that's why WM still don't approach them or are too hesitant.

BW just up and forget that especially through the rise of hip hop years ago they let everybody know especially through the media that it was OK to call them B's and H's in music that was selling very well everywhere, and to show accompanying visual images of women who look just like them half naked and gyrating to the sounds of all kinds of B's and H's.

And now it will have you painting yourself in a corner as Khadija has said, soon enough. Because black people don't think that all of those images and music get broadcasted around the world just like Michael Jackson did, and so in these more backward countries or the countries that are drastically slower to progression when it comes to women's rights and status, they will just see these BW as streetwalkers. Because they have seen the same videos and they here the 'B and H' soundtracks that go along with them. You can't deny the 'low status' of black women when you see them out there gyrating to a bunch of insults to their womanhood!

BW need to realize that a lot of damage control now has to be done to clean that up and re-work the image. But because the whole reason they dance in videos and buy 'B and H' music anyway is to hold on to the attentions of BM, most BW choose the status quo.

There was also a time such as back in the 80s and early 90s when white feminist organizations like NOW and WW like Tipper Gore did speak up against 2 Live Crew's album covers with half naked BW on them and such, and regarding Anita Hill's treatment from Clarence Thomas, but NOPE! Each time the BW just HAD to loudly talk about how 'they're just racist and want to keep a brutha down and hold him back' when some outsiders were trying to help out a BW's behind from being degraded!

Masochism. Soon after the white liberals including the feminist ones just like everybody else stayed way out of race-related topics of discussion because they didn't want to say anything perceived as racist or they just thought they'd only parrot the things that they've heard so many blacks say about 'not holding BM back' and 'BW shouldn't hold BM back' or whatever drivel much like a broken, scratched up record.

The past 20 years for a lot of those reasons above has been hell for a BW who thinks like me as those were my formative years mostly. Sometimes I just.....couldn't do it and keep my head up.

Truth P. said:

I also know that the racist white/other women supporters and lovers of DBR black males will soon themselves be the victims of these dbr's.You reap what you sow.Just like it bit us in the butt it'll bite them too.


I saw from talk shows in the 90s when I was younger that WW and white teen girls were soon abandoned by BM they had kids with. Kinda already started? Nope been happening and hearing that a lot of biracial kids with black fathers are given up for adoption or put in foster homes since I left the US is such a shame. I'm a black woman so I feel for the fully black kids that have been abandoned by their dads just as I feel for the biracial ones. I don't take pleasure in the WW being abandoned and then giving up her biracial kids, but I only feel bad for the kids, not their parents.

But I don't see why the WW didn't look over at the BW and see how some of them where being abandoned by the fathers of their children and say to themselves 'I don't want THAT kind of a situation'! You would think that the WW would or probably should but hey.... Some of the WW probably thought 'Oh well he won't do that with me' or 'Yes it probably IS all her fault' but nope. You don't know until you feel with some people when it's all too late!

ak said...

Trish:

I wonder if it is time we take a harder stand on black criminality than even the most vitriolic Republican.


Hell to the yes! If black people in black neighborhoods would have just let the cops just do their jobs from at least 40 years ago and get rid the criminals who happened to be black instead of letting them run rampant, and to keep on calling up the cops, those neighborhoods wouldn't be even half as bad as they are today. Who knows some of them would have probabaly greatly improved from their station from 40 years ago. They could have still have been poor today but not depraved. Because poverty and depravity don't need to go hand in hand.

Now it's too late for most of them, and black black people let the jailbirds outnumber them in their neighborhoods so much that they got scared to go to their own local precinct to actually talk to the police in case word got around. Which to me is ridiculous. You let things get to THAT stage?

It's too late now... although some of the people residing in the death trap areas could still speak to another precinct further out so that they could speak to the cops in their home precinct but they don't even bother to try that!

ak said...

And Trish the men may never change especially for the most part, so don't hang too much on to hope. Just as long as you get up and go and stick up for yourself and your children.

The best way is to live in the best most secure neighborhood you can and marry and only have kids with a real man who's a proven provider and protector. And work with the police when and if you have to! Just like anywhere else with any other type of job, some of the cops will have attitudes and seem like total d**ks for whatever reason and some will seem more receptive and take the time to talk to you about your relevant concerns. You just gotta talk to the cop who seems more OK!

Anonymous said...

"Black women and white men are in general more outwardly focused, ready to work and defend. This is why I always thought that white women are better paired with black men, and black women are better paired with white men."

amen. i always thought bw and wm were meant to be together.

Bellydancer said...

Oshun said:
For example: F Weaver of BGT was holding national seminars for IRR dating/marriage. I was very excited and planned to attend. She had a few of them in select cities, but wouldn't you know- known DBRBM who have blogs and were on your tube were stalking these places.

They were giving detailed online reports about the venue, how many women were there, what the women were wearing, what they were doing, how long it lasted etc..

Also another BW was trying to host IRR mixers- for BW and WM to meet/be introduced. DBRBM were crashing them and causing scenes.

Bellydancer said:
OMG I did not hear about this before. I suspected some people showed up out of curiousity but never dreamed that people would act out not after all these so called bm stated that they did not care if bw dated out.
Yeah they are really feeling scared that they are about to get their wish and we will be leaving them the hell alone.
They are so scared they have other bw posting bs about the BWE bloggers and their followers and how we are unwomanly, unfeminine, stingy, narcissistic and selfish for trying to leave the black community with our resources. Talking about how bw need to look at themselves instead of blaming others, blah, blah, blah.
Did those bm stop to have a conversation with us before they left....nope so I am not having any with them while I go about my business.
That's a damn shame though about those opportunities being messed up by trifling ass bm who claim we are not good enough to date/marry but do not want to lose our resources

Anonymous said...

ak said:BW need to realize that a lot of damage control now has to be done to clean that up and re-work the image. But because the whole reason they dance in videos and buy 'B and H' music anyway is to hold on to the attentions of BM, most BW choose the status quo.

I agree Ak and we must also be thankful to black men for their now non black choices of degradation in their videos.I believe that the more black men discriminate and hate on us all the while treating these other women like crap people will more and more take notice to the ways of black men.They will see that they are truly mentally ill if they don't see it already.

Truth P.

ARLYNE said...

BM whine and say BW have it easier than they have it. What BM fail to realize is "you are suppose to have it harder because,as a man, you are suppose to BE harder". This is the big difference between BM and WM. WM has masculine energy and wants to be stronger. He strives to be stronger than WW. He does not need her to be weaker, per se. He will step up his game and give her no other choice but to be softer. He is harder. BM equate themselves to BW not WM. WM equate themselves to other MEN not women.

BW need to take all weight off their shoulders. BM are always comparing BW negatively to WW so BW should take a clue from WW and let BM have all the responsibility for dealing with racism. He should be the one fighting white hegemony. Let go completely and let him take the brunt of everything. Just do it. You do not have to wait for a change; let go now. BW should liberate themselves from any feeling of guilt or obligation towards the BM. When you see the BM suffering do not help or be concerned. WW do not run to help or defend WM.

Being indifferent to BM has been very liberating for me. I still giggle at how light and happy I am living. BM are always in trouble, but it is not my problem. When something happens to a BM, I do not care. BW ask me how do I talk about racism with my husband. I say, "I don't". Most of the "racial incidents" involve BM. Oh well, he better do something. When I was dating, a BM told me about some racial situation he was dealing with at work. I told him, "Oh, that's terrible. I hope you solve your problem". I then just sat there all sweetness and light.

The thing BW must remember is that BM do not protect or provide for you anyway, and by being indifferent to them, you are not losing anything.

Neecy said...

Arlyne,

Your post is so on point!

BW need to stop defending BM and recognize that they are the only men (and I use the term men loosley) that want to be coddled and protected like women. They want everything real men have but don't want to act accordingly.

As i said before, Bm cannot compete with other races of men so they turn their actions, frustrations and all else towards a weaker group - BLACK WOMEN and BLACK CHILDREN (whom they abandon).

I am so indifferent towards BM now. And just like you, when any racial incident happends to a BM I'm like, they are men they need to handle it. PERIOD. You won't see me saying anything or going all crazy. its like "oh well better handle that. i wish you luck". BW have to handle our issues ALONE so BM can do it ALONE or with each other. I simply don't care anymore.


The more BW do this the better our lives will be for it. No one respects BW anymore b/c they see BW running to defend BM at all costs even when BW are the victims. people are just like "whatever" towards BW these days. Why should they care anymore if BW don't? The best way for BW to show we do care is to shut up and sit down when some BM comes across some "racial injustice". Let the BM go out fighting like REAL MEN do and should.

Oshun said...

@ Arlyne

I agree with your comment about men being held to a different standard, but the crux of it is - BW do not have it easier than BM - when we should. We are women - we should have the same protections, provisions, courtesies, and considerations as all women.

Unless you are a BW who had some sort of exceptional factors going on in your favor - most BW have had to work and work hard to get what they need/want.

Look at the fallout from having it easier: obesity, health issues, mental health issues, reproductive issues, substantially less wealth etc

Love said...

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I am a longtime reader of your blog and have recently started my own blog about my interracial relationships/friendships. I hope to include interviews at a later date. I would love it if you featured my blog on your blog!

http://swirlaroundtheworld.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

No one likes to question the Black Power Movement and how it's doctrine,created and practiced by Black Men, not contributed to the formation of Black Feminism but the lose of our culture as well.

It seems to me that Black Women have to fall on the sword AGAIN for the sake of the Black Male image. I ceased seeking civil relations with them years ago.